John

I thank you for your explanation of the chemistry of the "stuff" that forms on the wires during CS making. I have read many speculations of its nature, none reassuring. Yours seems authoritative. I am almost embarrassed to ask this, but, would Dr. Wittmer and Dr. Berry, my chemistry profs of 55 years ago be able to refute it? I make CS as a ministry for my church family and friends, and I want to be as right as possible about what I am doing, and what I tell them. It would be very reassuring to know that there is no ionic silver in my product. Thanks very much for your help.

John, I was educated at the university level in chemistry and I think my analysis is correct.

First of all remember in chemistry that all aqueous solutions or suspensions must be electrically neutral. If there are positive ions present, then there must be a balance of negative ions present.Therefore, there cannot be any silver ions, (Ag+) by themselves in the water.  Also, because there is only silver and water in the reaction, the only possible ions available are Ag+ (silver ion), OH- (hydroxyl ion), H+ (hydronium ion) and O-- (oxygen ion).

The only silver compounds that can be made from these are AgOH (silver hydroxide) and Ag₂O (silver oxide).  Both of these compounds are insoluble:   silver hydroxide is brown and is produced at the positive electrode and silver oxide is black and produced at the negative terminal.

Therefore, again, there cannot be any silver ions present, as all the silver ions are reacted.

As explained in my Educational Blog, colloidal silver particles and also, silver ions are expelled from the positive electrode. The silver ions immediately react with the hydroxyl ions (OH-) present to form the insoluble compound silver hydroxide.  Remember, when you pass an electric current through water it causes electrolysis of the water breaking it down into ions.

The H+ ions pick up free electrons present due to the electrical current and form diatomic hydrogen (H₂), which bubbles out near the negative electrode. Excess negatively charged OH- (hydroxyl ions) remain in the water surrounding the positively charged colloidal silver particles.This can be proven by the pH going from 7 to 10.5 or 11.  Also, the charges of the colloidal silver particles and the remaining hydroxyl ions balance, so the suspension is electrically neutral.

Finally, when storing the freshly made colloidal silver, over a period of 2 weeks to a month, the pH drops back to 7 and a little brown silver hydroxide is found on the bottom of the container.This indicates that the charged colloidal silver particles eject a silver ion (Ag+) from time to time, which immediately reacts with the hydroxyl ions (OH-) surrounding them and forms silver hydroxide which falls to the bottom of the container.This is a small fraction of the silver present, so the remaining suspension still has 98 to 99% of the original suspended particles, they are just not charged any more.

Again a link to my Educational Blog:http://lifeforcecolloidalsilver.com/blog/the-chemistry-of-making-colloidal-silver/

Most of what I have read on other sites does not explain the Chemistry, as I have done, which shows there is no possible way that a colloidal silver generator using only distilled water can produce silver ions in solution.

Mike

I have a Life-Force EZ-2 and have used it 3 times now but despite following the instructions for the appropriate length of time ect.. I cannot get the colloidal silver solution to go above 14-15 ppm. I do not think it is due to my TDS meter as that displays different values on other solutions and consistent values of 14-15 on my silver solutions. Information/advice would be much appreciated.

-Andrew


Andrew, tds meters read solutions, not colloids (tds means total dissolved solids). Solutions are where the solids are single ions, atoms  or molecules dissolved in water. Much colloidal silver on the market is actually ionic silver or is all-one-size very small colloidal silver particles, so it reads OK.

Colloids are clumps of atoms or molecules suspended in water. Colloidal silver particles are clumps of atoms from about a dozen at 1 nm to over 100,000 at 590 nm.at concentrations of 1 ppm to 40 ppm.

Our colloidal silver generators produce larger particles as the concentration increases and tds meters pass a very tiny current through the suspension (a few microamps) which is not carried well by the larger particles. The higher the concentration, the more inaccurate to the low side the tds meter will read, because there is a bigger fraction of large particles present.

My $400 lab grade meter starts reading low at 13 ppm and $25-$50 meters may start to read low at 3 ppm. My meter reads 15 ppm as 13 ppm, 20 ppm as 17 ppm, 30 ppm as 26 ppm and 40 ppm as 34 ppm. You can contact Hanna Instruments to verify the problem with reading colloidal silver.

LifeForce's timing chart was made using a meter to monitor the current passing through the silver wires to calculate the ppm of the suspension. It is the most accurate way to tell ppm, short of doing a chemical assay, which is expensive.

Also, with 14 gauge silver wires the color tells the ppm. 15 ppm is faint yellow, 20 ppm is bright yellow. 30 ppm is orange and 40 ppm is reddish brown.

Thicker gauge silver wire produces color changes at higher ppm, because the increased surface area causes smaller particles to be made longer. 12 gauge: 22 ppm faint yellow, 27 ppm bright yellow, 40 ppm orange and 53 ppm reddish brown 10 gauge silver wire: 30 ppm faint yellow, 40 ppm bright yellow, 60 ppm orange and 80 ppm reddish brown.

Also, the higher the concentration, the more metallic it tastes.

Hope this helps

Mike

3) all the particles are the same size, about 10 nm (nanometers), so they pass right through cell walls. This means:

  a) they are mostly absorbed by abdominal tissue and not carried by the blood stream 

  b) they are mostly effective against viruses and some bacteria, but not single celled threats like Candida and Clamydia (small particles are most effective against viruses, medium particles against bacteria and large particles against single-celled organisms)

  c) the very small particles are useless for topical application (eyes, ears, nose throat, skin) because they pass right into the cells, rather than staying on the surface of the skin  or on the surface of mucous membranes to kill bugs, like large particles, which take awhile to breakdown into smaller particles and be absorbed, so they can stay on the surface and kill bugs.

Please go to my website and read the free publication (which you will receive with your machine) Frequently Asked Questions and read the blog post on the "nanoparticle marketing gimmick"

Mike

Andrew,

The rust colored stuff is silver hydroxide, which is an insoluble ionic silver compound. It falls off the positive electrode, where its is forming, because that is also where the colloidal silver particles are being ejected from, so you will see some on the bottom of the processing container. It is harmless and will pass through the intestinal tract, because it is not soluble. Most of it can be removed using paper coffee filters.

Also, when storing colloidal silver, some of the brown silver hydroxide will show up on the bottom of the storage container, because their are excess hydroxyl ions (OH-) produced due to the electrolysis of the water during colloidal silver production (this is verified as the pH goes from about 7 to 10). During storage, those ions combine with some of the charged colloidal silver particles and some more silver hydroxide is produced and that is why the charges disappear after 2 weeks to a month (this is verified by the pH dropping from 10 back to 7), and some brown silver hydroxide is then on the bottom of the storage container.

I don't know of any nice way to eliminate them

Mike

I don't see how you reduce the ionic solution to colloidal? Thanks, Rick


Rick, in the blog post on my website "making ionic silver and thinking it is colloidal silver" I debunk the process of reducing ionic silver to colloidal silver by the using karo syrup as a reduction agent. There is no need to try to make colloidal silver that way and it doesn't work.

Furthermore, there is no need to be concerned that there is ionic silver being produced when using just distilled water and silver electrodes.  It is the same process originally used by Michael Faraday and John Tyndall in the 1840's.

I am university educated in Chemistry.  What happens when you make colloidal silver with distilled water is this: First when passing an electrical current through water a process called electrolysis occurs where the water molecules are split into ions H+ and OH- and O--. Second, silver colloid particles are ejected from the positive electrode (colloids are suspensions of nano-particles that are larger than ions, atoms or molecules - in the case of silver these are clumps of silver atoms) . Third, some silver ions are formed on the surface of the positive wire. The OH- ions produced by electrolysis react with the silver ions to form the insoluble ionic compound silver hydroxide which is brown and clings to the positive wire (well a lot of it is ejected into the water as the positive electrode is also where silver is being ejected into the water, so you will also see a brown cloud between the electrodes - see photos under the heading on the website Making Colloidal Silver). The O-- ions produced by electrolysis react at the surface of the negative wire forming the insoluble ionic compound silver oxide which is black and clings to the negative wire (the instructions have a protocol for wiping the wires off periodically to maintain the speed of the process of making colloidal silver). The H+ ions formed by electrolysis combine with each other and free electrons from the electrical current and bubble off the negative wire as the diatomic hydrogen molecule H2.

All that is left at the end are colloidal particles of pure silver suspended in the distilled water and insoluble brown silver hydroxide clinging to the positive wire and insoluble black silver oxide clinging to the negative wire. The colloidal silver nano-particles have numerous charges on them and are surrounded by OH- ions. This can be verified because the suspension's pH rises from 7 to about 10.5.  Also, you can perform the Tyndall test to verify the presence of colloidal silver.  Shine a bright penlight through the clear suspension.  Amazingly, the beam appears as if passing though fog.

I hope this clears up the Chemistry for you.

Mike

NASA gives thumbs up to use of colloidal silver as antibiotic in space; FDA has no jurisdiction in high orbit

Saturday, September 12, 2015 by: Ethan A. Huff, staff writer

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/051148_silver_clean_water_NASA.html#ixzz3lvggHOgq

You state that silver itself has antimicrobial activity. Does that mean that the generator itself produces the nano-size silver?  Is there a difference between colloidal silver generators, and the new nano-size generators.  Also, is it better to use 12 gauge silver wire instead of 14 gauge. Help me to understand this! Thank you.

Actually, all silver, metallic, ionic and colloidal silver has antimicrobial properties.  As examples, it was reported that Roman soldiers used silver coins wrapped against wounds to prevent infection and accelerate healing.  Silver coins were dropped into milk delivered on the doorstep in the 1930's, 40's and 50's to keep it from souring.   Ionic silver in the form of silver chloride is used in modern over-the-counter ointments, like Curad Silver Gel.   Colloidal silver is just more effective, because it is nano-sized silver particles (1 to 700 nanometers) suspended in distilled water

LifeForce colloidal silver generators are designed such that the starting current is 0.1 mA (milli-amps or 1/1000 of an amp) so they make particles at the outset that are 1 nm (nanometer) in size.  As the concentration increases the size of particles produced increases, so that a 5 ppm product has particles in the range of 1 to 100 nm (see LifeForce publication Frequently Asked Questions on this website).

The companies that say that only their machines make effective nano-size particles are being disingenuous.   First their machines make only one size particle through electronic current control keeping the current at 1 mA, and those are 10 nm in size (my machine produces particles 10 times smaller at the outset) and their machines are $200 to $400.  Second, ALL colloidal silver generators make nano-size particles, defined as 1 to 700 nm in size.  Third, when colloidal silver particles are ingested, they break down into smaller particles anyway.   Fourth, I have dozens of testimonials from my customers that they no longer get colds or the flu using my machines, so that indicates the colloidal silver produced by my machines has ant-viral activity, while the nano particle companies say only their machines produce colloidal silver that has anti-viral activity.   The conclusion is that the nano particle argument is a marketing gimmick.   Fifth, from my testimonials, a range of particle sizes gives colloidal silver broad-spectrum antimicrobial properties against viruses, bacteria, yeasts, fungi and single-celled threats, while the all-one-size machines mostly target viruses and some bacteria (again read my publication Frequently Asked Questions on this website).

The thickness of silver wires increases as the gauge number decreases. 14 gauge is .064", 12 gauge is .081 inches and 10 gauge is .101 inches.  Heavier gauge silver wires have more surface area and because the size of particles made is directly related to the amount of electrical current per unit area, the heavier gauge wires will make smaller colloidal silver particles for the entire processing run, so if you want to skew the range of particle sizes to smaller particles, use 12 and even better, 10 gauge wire, rather than 14 gauge.

Thanks for your interest in our products and let me know if you have any further questions

Mike

Hello Mike,

Here is a link I recently found on the making of Colloidal Silver. This guy seems quite scientific in his approach to making the colloid. He seems to have some background in electricity and chemistry or both. What I hope you will tell me, is what he is doing sound? He never mentions how much of his Colloidal Silver he takes a day. Here is the link to his YouTube instruction video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xur-oP3bmbc&feature

Thanks for taking the time to review this and for your comments on his process.

Thanks.

Ray

Ray, Wow, what a huge effort to produce ionic silver with caramelized sugar in it!  What a sad piece of misinformation.

There are three main things he fails to notice or explain: 

1) what are those bubbles coming off the negative wire? Those are hydrogen bubbles, which result from electrolysis (electro = electricity, lysis = to cut, in other words "to cut with electricity").  What is being cut?  The water molecules.  That is why hydrogen is bubbling off the negative wire and hydroxyl ions are being formed in solution. The chemical equation for this process is 2H₂O + 2e⁻ → 2OH⁻ + H₂↑ (two water molecules plus 2 electrons react to form 2 hydroxyl ions plus a diatomic molecule of hydrogen, which bubbles off the negative wire).  With the sodium carbonate he has added to the water and the electrolysis reaction taking place, he is making ionic silver in the form of silver carbonate, which is a soluble ionic silver compound which is yellow!  The yellow color is NOT due to the presence of colloidal silver.   See the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics!  The chemical equation is: Na₂CO₃ + 2Ag + 2H₂0 → 2NaOH + Ag₂CO₃ + H₂↑ (sodium carbonate plus two silver atoms plus two water molecules react to give two sodium hydroxide molecules plus a silver carbonate molecule plus a molecule of diatomic hydrogen that bubbles off the negative silver wire).  Notice that the water molecules are involved in the reaction, because of electrolysis. 

2) the Karo syrup (let’s just say it is pure glucose) reacts with the sodium hydroxide as follows:

NaOH + C₆H₁₂O₆ → NaC₆H₁₁O₆ + H₂O (sodium hydroxide plus glucose reacts to form sodium gluconate + water). So again, an ionic compound, sodium gluconate, is being made.  In fact glucose is being reduced by the sodium hydroxide already present from the previous reaction that formed silver carbonate!   Then the heat causes the excess sugar to partially caramelize and turn yellow/orange,  like "browning" or "caramelizing" onions, which have the same sugar molecules present when you grill them. The sodium compounds of the sugars are even more prone to caramelizing as well.  The conclusion is that Karo syrup is NOT a reducing agent causing the silver to somehow come out of solution to form particles of pure metallic silver suspended in water and the resulting yellow color is due to the caramelizing of the sugar and the sodium-sugar compounds.

 
3) he never applies the Tyndall test (or the Faraday-Tyndall test) to the final product, by shining a beam of light or a laser through the product to see if the beam is visible.  (He's probably not even aware of the Tyndall Effect).   In an ionic solution the beam would be invisible, because ions are too small to scatter light in the visible range of the electromagnetic spectrum.  On the other hand, by definition, colloids are SUSPENSIONS, not solutions, and the suspended particles are LARGER than ions, atoms or molecules, so they WILL scatter light in the visible spectrum and the beam of light is visible.

The beam wouldn't be visible unless some of the caramelized sugar has clumped into larger-than-molecule-size particles, which would give a positive indication of a colloid present, but NOT a silver colloid, but a colloid of caramelized sugar particles! 

He seems satisfied that because it is a deep yellow that it must be colloidal silver, when in fact colloidal silver can be colorless, yellow, orange, red, or brown depending on the size of the colloidal silver particles present.

Also, colloidal silver has a distinct metallic taste, because it is pure metal nanoparticles larger than ions, atoms or molecules SUSPENDED in water, while ionic silver is positive silver ions DISSOLVED with its associated negative ions, which make it slightly salty to the taste (he has this backwards).  

Colloidal silver can only be made correctly with pure silver wires and distilled water with NO additives, because the electrical current will cause the silver to chemically react with the additives and give ionic silver compounds.

Also, if this product is ingested over a period of years, the trace metals in 999 pure silver wire are TEN times greater than the trace metals in 9999 pure silver wire.  Isn't it worth the extra cost to reduce those trace metals?

Mike

Subject: making colloidal silver
From: (name changed)@gmail.com
To: lifeforcecs@gmail.com

Hello I purchased a Barebones colloidal silver generator from Amazon with the name of LifeForce on it and I am using it for the first time. I have made colloidal silver before but only using three batteries as a generator.
I have never seen a reaction like this.  Is it normal? What is happening is on the red or positive electrode or wire I am getting a brown, smokey-like substance on the wire and on the negative or black terminal wire I am getting a greyish black substance on it. I have never experienced a reaction like this before.
Can you help me. This happened only 15 minutes into the making of the colloid.

Rick

3/25/15

To: Rick
Subject: Re: making colloidal silver

Rick, yes this is normal. I don't know how you have been making colloidal silver in the past, but due to the large amount of misinformation on the Internet, you were probably making ionic silver, because either a) you were using tap/well/spring/bottled/purified water or b) you were using an additive like salt or baking soda.

a) when using water with mineral content most or all of the silver expelled from the positive terminal becomes chemically bound to the dissolved minerals in the water. The product becomes cloudy with insoluble silver compounds. There is still some colloidal silver particles suspended in the product, if all the dissolved mineral content has reacted with the silver being expelled from the positive wire, which is unlikely, because these waters usually have 60 to 180 ppm of dissolved minerals in them. The wires stay very clean.

b) with additives like salt or baking soda, the ionic silver compounds silver chloride and silver carbonate are formed until all of the additives have reacted with the silver being expelled from the positive wire, which is unlikely, because the "pinch" of additives usually results in a concentration of 50 to 150 ppm. The wires stay very clean.

When making colloidal silver the correct way with distilled water, any silver ions produced react with the water (it is the only thing present) producing silver hydroxide on the positive wire (a tan/brown insoluble silver compound) and silver oxide on the negative wire (a gray/black insoluble silver compound). All the rest of the silver expelled from the positive wire becomes suspended nanoparticles of pure metallic silver. That's why the suspension tastes metallic. 

Ionic silver has virtually no metallic taste or a slight salty taste.

And the colloidal silver suspension is clear and colorless, until some of the suspended particles become large enough to scatter yellow/orange/red light when the concentration gets higher.

Therefore, wiping the wires off periodically with a tissue during processing is necessary. The Instructions call for stirring at 10 minutes and every 30 minutes thereafter and cleaning the wires off with a tissue when the unit is removed to do stirring. The brown or black insoluble compounds that fall off the wires and end up in the product can be filtered out with paper coffee filters.

I hope this clears everything up.

I also wonder if you would allow me to post this question and answer on my blog on my website lifeforcecolloidalsilver.com? It would be very helpful to a lot of people.

Mike